12 Comments

  1. Mark Pack
    · Reply

    The overall quality of the manifestos rather showed the amount of work that needs to be done to get the ERS to the forefront of campaigning. Clearly a lot of people who think they have what it takes to be on the Council don’t have much of an understanding of how printed literature works!

    (Which, come to think of it, may help explain some of the issues with the Yes campaign’s approach to literature?)

  2. Cat
    · Reply

    You should vote for which ever candidate is going to close the ERS down, 90 years? of campaigning and the one time it got close to any sort of reform it totally f*cked up. If there is any hope for electoral reform ever happening this century then any pro reform groups have to separate themselves from the libdems, the whole AV debate was fatally undermined because it was subjugated by the political needs of Nick Clegg.

    “and the failure of the Labour party to get behind the campaign.”

    WTF has the AV ref got to do with Labour?

    • Andy Strange
      · Reply

      Cat, putting aside the fact that there wouldn’t have been an AV referendum if it wasn’t for Nick Clegg and the Liberal Democrats, in answer to your question “WTF has the AV ref go to do with Labour?” here is the Labour Party’s 2010 General Election manifesto:

      “To ensure that every MP is supported by the majority of their constituents voting at each election, we will hold a referendum on introducing the Alternative Vote for elections to the House of Commons.”

      It was a manifesto commitment that they, mostly, failed to campaign for.

  3. Cat
    · Reply

    @Andy

    “putting aside the fact that there wouldn’t have been an AV referendum if it wasn’t for Nick Clegg and the Liberal Democrats”

    Is that an achievement?

    “It was a manifesto commitment that they, mostly, failed to campaign for.”

    Where exactly does it say in that quoted text that Labour MPs are committed to campaigning for AV? I’ll give you a clue…it doesn’t!!! Labour MPs were NOT committed to campaigning for AV, they were committed to holding a referendum. Seriously, I don’t know how you or anybody can argue otherwise – it is tribal pathetic tribal double think.

  4. Mark Pack
    · Reply

    Cat: I guess you better file me in the “tribal pathetic tribal double think” camp too (though you’ll also find me in “a string of insults don’t make an argument more convincing” camp).

    But can you let me know what you think the first part of the text Andy quotes means then?

    The Labour manifesto didn’t say “To ensure the public have a choice…” or similar, what it said was “To ensure that every MP is supported by the majority of their constituents voting at each election…”

    So what was that wording meant to me? I can’t see any way how you can say you want to ensure something that only happens if you get a Yes vote and then claim that you weren’t saying whether or not you wanted a Yes vote.

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  6. Stephen Robinson
    · Reply

    Glad you read my emails Andy!

    You’re right that ERS should not become an organisation that campaigns on a broad range of political reform issues but it should work closely with the organisation that does do that. To be fair, it is talking about how to do so.

    Also, I don’t think the design of YES literature was the main problem; it was the message in it. Those at the top deciding the message were incapable of changing the message when the tone of the campaign changed. How the person at the top came to be appointed remains a mystery to many people.

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  8. Cat
    · Reply

    @Mark

    “To ensure that every MP is supported by the majority of their constituents voting at each election”

    I don’t see any meaning in the above sentence, it is adding context for the next line. What does the above line mean to you?

    “we will hold a referendum on introducing the Alternative Vote for elections to the House of Commons.”

    This line is the manifesto commitment and it is crystal clear as to what Labour MPs are committed to doing.

    If the manifesto had said explicitly “we will hold a referendum…and campaign for AV…” or had all Labour PPCs signed personal pledges to campaign for AV then you’d have a very strong case. But in reality you’ve got a dodgy interpretation of half of a sentence, enough for the backwoodsmen but that ain’t saying much.

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